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Forum » American Conquest » Sword & Arrow: European Wars mod » Idea Implementation (Post your thoughts and ideas for the Sword & Arrow mod)
Idea Implementation
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Friday, 2011-07-15, 8:39 PM | Message # 1
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Please post any ideas you may have for the Sword & Arrow mod, you can see what some of the ideas here: http://swordandarrow.ucoz.com/index/idea_implementation/0-33

*Please also note that you should be aware of the features and limitations of the American Conquest game, as long as it can be modded into the game then it is achievable, as we don't have access to the source code of the dmcr engine then we can't add new features, but simply modify current ones.
 
zzDate: Friday, 2011-07-15, 8:53 PM | Message # 2
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first the spacing in american conquest - soldiers must be bigger, in terms of spacing, cause a formation looks like they are fighting shoulder to shoulder, can this be changed??

second can walls be added??, also a large number of buildings for each civilisation. your idea of implementing storage facilities for resources is a good one, that makes you reconsider
strategy.

third new civilisations, and especially exotic ones - abbsids, maghreb, ayyubids, seljuks, lithuanians, serbs, and so on. if we add many civilisations, then this game would be played everywhere.

fourth trying to recreate the total war system of armies, a large variety of units available for each faction, also the selection per mouse click of a certain group of units - direct and simple for combat,
also i do not remember units to run - they could run charging the enemy, differed from walking on the march route.

fifth i can provide inspiration material in TONS, for those interested.

sixth implementing field fortification from spikes - damaging and slowing down the enemy, to large field fortifications made of wood and even stone - lavish array of buildings available. soldiers could build, harvest crops, work as craftsmen and merchants (vikings for example).

seventh pyramidal unit numbers - many peasents, fewer craftsmen, fewer nobility, fewer churchmen, and the same for the soldier ierarchies. also we should establish a money value system, so the game could be proportioned correctly in this way
 
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Saturday, 2011-07-16, 9:11 AM | Message # 3
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Some excellent ideas you have, I will reply below:

Quote (zz)
first the spacing in american conquest - soldiers must be bigger, in terms of spacing, cause a formation looks like they are fighting shoulder to shoulder, can this be changed??


This can be changed, but is debatable as unit size corresponds directly to building size, this is what gives the game a more realistic touch to it. I can tell you one thing, the tree size will be changed, they will be made larger and be the size of the trees in American Conquest: Divided Nation.

Quote
second can walls be added??, also a large number of buildings for each civilisation. your idea of implementing storage facilities for resources is a good one, that makes you reconsider
strategy.


Walls are definitely in the mod, no doubt about it, a medieval town relied on its defensive walls as much as it relied on an army, they are vital to a towns protection, have you not viewed the unit & building list?: http://swordandarrow.ucoz.com/index/military_buildings_england/0-28 I am yet to add the renders of the walls, but they look excellent, there is a low wall and a taller wall. The lower wall is great if you wish to place archers and siege engines behind them as they can shoot over the walls at enemy positions.

Quote
third new civilisations, and especially exotic ones - abbsids, maghreb, ayyubids, seljuks, lithuanians, serbs, and so on. if we add many civilisations, then this game would be played everywhere.


A lot of those factions will appear in the Crusaders part of the mod after the major factions are complete, there are also plans to add even the smaller factions who did influence the major European powers, these include The Flemish, The Welsh, The Burgundians etc. The best part about the American Conquest engine is that it can handle many factions, you only have to look at Cossacks as well and the amazing thing is the game is stable. The factions that are listed for this mod are only the ones to get it functioning and balance issues sorted out, once this is achieved it will be a lot easier to add the Crusades & the smaller factions.

Quote
fourth trying to recreate the total war system of armies, a large variety of units available for each faction, also the selection per mouse click of a certain group of units - direct and simple for combat,
also i do not remember units to run - they could run charging the enemy, differed from walking on the march route.


I can assure you that each faction in the mod will have a large array of units, each nation also have units unique only to that particular nation, the ones listed on the units page will be increased, it's all about getting the listed ones in the game and testing for balance issues and see what needs to be changed.

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fifth i can provide inspiration material in TONS, for those interested.


Pictures & information are always appreciated. I will start a thread so that unit pictures can be posted for unit makers.

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sixth implementing field fortification from spikes - damaging and slowing down the enemy, to large field fortifications made of wood and even stone - lavish array of buildings available. soldiers could build, harvest crops, work as craftsmen and merchants (vikings for example).


This has already been done with the English Longbowman, this unit can build stakes, other fortifications will also be able to me made by the engineer unit.
I like the idea of soldiers that can build (this has been done with the Longbowman, but other units can also be enabled to be built) they could also harvest crops as this is achievable with any unit with the dmcr engine.

Quote
seventh pyramidal unit numbers - many peasents, fewer craftsmen, fewer nobility, fewer churchmen, and the same for the soldier ierarchies. also we should establish a money value system, so the game could be proportioned correctly in this way


The money system has certainly been considered, the current thinking is to perhaps replace a gold mine with silver mine which in turn represents currency, this is then also traded at the market for other resources and also pays troops wages.

Great ideas, keep them coming! biggrin
 
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Saturday, 2011-07-16, 9:47 AM | Message # 4
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Added a unit images section on the forum so you can post unit & building images, please create a new thread if you wish to add anything: http://swordandarrow.ucoz.com/forum/14
 
zzDate: Saturday, 2011-07-16, 2:41 PM | Message # 5
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first, i wouldn't concrete on the western europe, in such a detail, i may assume that a frankish civilisation could enjoy flemmish, burgundian, breton, swiss, and so on units

about the walls - the walls should have a front and a back, at leats as a visual eye candy. there could be added wallsections that would carry a french machicolation, like paris or visby, walls should not have a corner sequence, and should be at least on 16 directions, like the aok ship, then you could create almost any castle on earth.

what i can do is creating 3 sizes of towers - small perimeter tower, large perimeter tower, and the keep size tower. each of the three categories would have

8 square shell towers (8 directions), 8 semioctogonal shell towers, 8 halfround towers, also as a shelltower (open at the back), and 1 round tower, 1 square full tower, 1 octogonal tower, 8 small turrets (reaching the bottom of the wall - almourol castle), 8 halround turrets (gent castle), 8 semioctogonal turrets (gent castle), and some other features

currently i am working on the crusader/turkish set, if i will complete this set, i will paste it to the franks, and then i will bein to modify towers and add the right textures (you have the previews),
then the balkanic set will be made, then the german set, then the russian set, and then the persian/mongolian, and the ayyubid set. i hope to get inside a moorish set, an italian set and a iberian set

if the military buildings are done, i will concentrate on the civilian buildings, last but not least i will create religoius buildings.

you will have to post on the site a list of existing buildings and the full list of the future available buildings.
 
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Saturday, 2011-07-16, 8:46 PM | Message # 6
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Correct, the main focus is on the main European factions, the smaller factions can be added later either as a new faction or a "tribe" in the game in which you can trade, become allies with an recruit new units from which are unique to this tribe, e.g. could be a Scottish Highlander, Welsh Bowman etc.

I will show you what I currently have for walls, I will render some for you when I get some spare time.

I will post up what buildings are ready and what buildings we are in need for. biggrin
 
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Friday, 2011-08-26, 2:32 PM | Message # 7
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How do people feel about historical units in the game, such as a king or baron, these units would have a morale boosting effect on troops when present, and if they were to die morale levels would drop amongst your troops.
 
LionheartDate: Saturday, 2011-08-27, 6:04 PM | Message # 8
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Just wondering if this is implementable at all, is it possible to have physical units ON a building/wall as opposed to INSIDE if you get what I mean? I always found fortresses rather dull in AC.

Is there also a first hit bonus applicable to units? ie, when a knight charges with his lance is would he kill his first unit straight off?
How long range can the arrows be made to go? This I mean is with a view to being historically accurate with being able to place archers behind infantry and still be effective.

Trade and such being such a large source of income could caravans between fixed "trade points" be implemented (anyone remembering the motorways of caravans in AoE2??) Perhaps by using the native tribes/ telegraph stations in divided nation?
 
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Saturday, 2011-08-27, 6:56 PM | Message # 9
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Quote
Just wondering if this is implementable at all, is it possible to have physical units ON a building/wall as opposed to INSIDE if you get what I mean? I always found fortresses rather dull in AC.


This can be done in theory, if you get block points right (in the MD file) and then treat the building like a gate with an open close feature this changes the block points. You can also make a rest animation for buildings, such as when you add a flag blowing in the wind (which castles will have on top) I will be doing this with one of the towers, it will have a manned catapult crew on top which will fire stones.

Quote
Is there also a first hit bonus applicable to units? ie, when a knight charges with his lance is would he kill his first unit straight off?
How long range can the arrows be made to go? This I mean is with a view to being historically accurate with being able to place archers behind infantry and still be effective.


With the Lance Knight you can have this, originally what I was going to do was have all knights carry the lance for initial charge, then they switch to sword (units in American Conquest can have two weapons, such as bow & arrow and sword for melee attack) but then I though it would be better to have two different knights, one with a lance for charging and one for close combat with a sword, because the Lance Knight has a better range for attack because of the long lance I was thinking that this unit would have a bonus against Pikeman units. You could also have units that when hit their health slowly depletes, this is like the Indian unit in American Conquest that blows the poisonous darts, that's what I love about American Conquest, there are so many variables you modify!

With arrow range you can have the range as far or as short as you want, if you really wanted to you could have an arrow that fires the distance of the map! Arrow units will certainly be able to do what you describe, they can be screened behind the infantry and fire at the enemy, changing the range is very simple, it is in the units MD file, when we get the first nation out we will certainly be testing this for range and what we need.

Quote
Trade and such being such a large source of income could caravans between fixed "trade points" be implemented (anyone remembering the motorways of caravans in AoE2??) Perhaps by using the native tribes/ telegraph stations in divided nation?


I like this idea and I am all for it. Trade will be focused on a lot in the mod as historically trade was extremely important for a nations economic growth. The tribes will play a big role in the mod as you can not only trade with the various tribes that are on the map, but you can also hire their military units (at a cost of course) to help in your war efforts, aligning yourself to a tribe/clan could mean the difference between winning and losing, so choose your allies closely!

What I love most about American Conquest is the sheer scale in the game for example the size of the giant maps are amazing, it literally takes ages for units to walk from one side of the map to the other, you can make entire continents on these maps, we battled it out over the LAN on one of these giant maps and it was one of the immense games I have ever had, we could have a proper battle where unit formations of whole armies would meet in the middle and battle it out, the winner of this battle would then march to the enemy town, this gives the enemy time to prepare his defences and a siege would envelope, I actually beat my friend in the middle went to siege his town and he raised another army and beat me, and rampaged my town, amazing game if you ask me.
 
LionheartDate: Saturday, 2011-08-27, 7:50 PM | Message # 10
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It might be slightly dubious but I was thinking for the skinning or indeed for unit ideas the Total War series and associated modifications are perfect for this.
http://forums.filefront.com/general-gaming/391998-new-strategy-guide-released-warboard.html
http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/744/744444p3.html
http://m2tw.warlore.org/units/Dismounted_English_Knights

I agree with the sheer available space in this game! it really is fun smile
 
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Saturday, 2011-08-27, 7:55 PM | Message # 11
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Nice links, looks like a good resource. I have so many books here as well, you could say I'm slightly obsessed with the medieval period biggrin wacko
 
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Saturday, 2011-08-27, 9:02 PM | Message # 12
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On the subject of trade, would you prefer to have pack horses/mules or would you prefer horse and cart?
Merchant ships will also play a role in trade.
Pack horses will also be good for supply.

If I add the pack horse I will do a new animation with a unit walking with the pack horse, this is the original American Conquest pack horse:
 
LionheartDate: Sunday, 2011-08-28, 2:48 PM | Message # 13
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The pack horse sounds good, maybe it could have 2 levels though? level 1 trade is a packhorse and lvl 2 a horse and cart/caravan
 
Fallen_KNiGHT_ACDate: Sunday, 2011-08-28, 4:10 PM | Message # 14
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Quote (Lionheart)
The pack horse sounds good, maybe it could have 2 levels though? level 1 trade is a packhorse and lvl 2 a horse and cart/caravan


I'm liking this biggrin
By levels you are meaning you start with the pack horse, but you can do an upgrade and enable horse cart/caravan?
 
LionheartDate: Monday, 2011-08-29, 0:15 AM | Message # 15
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Exactly, I have a semi idea the problem is I dont know how difficult it would be to implement this in game. Firstly I seem to remember that in some missions you could have packhorses which had a certain amount of such and such resource and you had to deliver them to such and such a tribe or something similar, now keep that in mind a sec. Secondly you know when you're dealing with a tribe and to get in contact with them you have to send an officer or a priest to get in "contact" with them? wouldnt it be possible to create a packhorse/horsecart unit (which would be created in the marketplace or merchants guild or similar), which would upon coming into contact with a Native tribe which has been modified into a "trade fair" would then provide you with a specific amount of gold? and at the same time be consumed in the process? this would in turn create several in game possibilities never seen previously, such as, if not the possibility but the actual need to raid the enemy's trade caravans indeed even to capture them. Or game modes solely dependent on trade and not just mining.

The concept could further be stretched to include using merchants to aquire resources in quarries, lumber camps and farming villages (for a fee in those ofc). It must though be balanced in such a way that the cost of creating a merchant is not prone to rushing or spamming but that it is a significant source of income. and ofc the packhorse/ horse cart variants could be introduced one costing more but provides more etc.
 
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